The Swift Sword

I know that being honorable is not what makes us unique, it's our unmatched skill on the battlefield, and our endless numbers, and being the largest clan. But he has a point, why be a lion if we act like a crab?

Maybe it's because I still don't understand exactly what it means to be a Black Lion, but that's what he told me and at time of hearing it from him it made alot of sense..

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Lion Clan • Historian • Courtier • Spy • Paragon of Shourido • Loyal

Good Question.
I allways thought that Black Lions are more like Scorpion.

Beeing honorable and following Bushido is one of the points which make Lion unique.

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“We fight to preserve the culture of the Empire itself. Surviving without our culture, our laws, our tradition – that is no survival at all. An Empire that defeats its foes but has a creature like Jimen as its heart is no longer Rokugan.”

- Gobbo tainted Madness -

It's a good question. Yeah, the Black Lion resemble the Crab in a way. And we resemble the Scorpion in a way. But, we're uniquely Lion. The difference is the initial reason for the action. Crab behaves the same as the Black Lion, but they do so for a different reason; they do it to defend the Empire from horrible monsters. The Scorpion are also similar, but they do what they do because it serves a larger purpose; a great plan for their Clan and the Empire. The Lion, however, are doing what we do for the good of our Clan, Empire, and also to preserve the Honor of our Clanmates. The Black Lion do what must be done, because we don't want our brother samurai to sully their souls with it.

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I am proud to be a Black Lion. One of many...

What am I playing now? [still in development]

I didn´t want to start the discussion again, but I still do not understand it.
If you choose to do something dishonorable you will almost bring shame on your familiy and/or clan.
If you die during your dishonarable deed you will allways bring shame on your familiy/Clan.
Perhaps you will survive it and you rarely (there is the problem - if you ever knew that your deeds are dishonorable you will not get the permission for seppuku) will get the chance to commit seppuku or becoming a deathseeker
(The permission of becoming a deathseeker would never be granted to a Black Lion, because a Black Lion chooses and was not be compromised or forced to behave dishonorable.)

Following the descriptions of this Forum neither Setai nor Akodo Senichi could be called a Black Lion.
They never choose to do something dishonorable.

Looking at the definition of this forum Toturi was nether a black lion.
[He was the Black Lion - and I loved him - but this has nothing to do with this Definition.]
He didn`t choose to fall in love/have some fun with a (scorpion) geisha
"doing what [he] do for the good of [his] Clan, Empire".

P.S.: Sorry, if I ever insulted a fellow Lion Player!
If you want to play your Lion Character a little bit more like a badass, just do it.
If you want to have a small Group in the Lion Clan, which behaves a little bit more like the Crab/Scorpion... just do it. There were allways interesting characters like Kage, Hiroru, Ryozo.
If you want to play Dark Virtues/Tainted/Shadowlands Cards in your deck, just do it.
There was a time in which it mattered, this was the time in which the "White Lions" were needed.
But the Times (sadly) are over.
But pleeeeasssee don`t think you can do whatever you want to do, because you can allways become a deathseeker, or even worse you would follow Toturi.

P.P.S.: If you never tasted Mai-Bock in Germany, you will never taste victory anywhere.

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“We fight to preserve the culture of the Empire itself. Surviving without our culture, our laws, our tradition – that is no survival at all. An Empire that defeats its foes but has a creature like Jimen as its heart is no longer Rokugan.”

- Gobbo tainted Madness -

The point of my vision of the Black Lion isn't that we do whatever we want and claim Deathseeker. Geez, man, if you'd read anything I've written about the Black Lion seriously, you'd know that's not the idea at all. The Black Lion don't use the act of Seppuku as a safety net for their Honor and/or soul. The Black Lion is about recognizing that dishonorable acts are a necessary and unavoidable part of war, and that it would be better for a low-ranked samurai to lose his Honor than our Clan Champion. Yes, it's a tragedy when any samurai performs a dishonorable act; he sullies his own soil, and he sullies his family with the dishonor. But it's NECESSARY to winning wars for the Lion and the Empire.

Aside from that, however, is the side of the Black Lion that is what I founded the group on. The Black Lion aren't really looking to dishonor ourselves. Yes, if someone needs to do something dishonorable, then a samurai who thinks in the Black Lion mode will do it. But the main point of the Black Lion is simply never to give up. Yes, the Deathseeker has lost his Honor, and yes, he's shamed himself and his family. But if by following the path of a Deathseeker he can redeem himself, then he's following the philosophy of the Black Lion as I see it. Which is, if you lose your Honor, that's even more motivation to fight and die for the Empire.

I'll say it again. Just one more time. But this time I'll try to say it simply so that I'm not misunderstood. There are only a very few members of the Black Lion who have actively chosen to dishonor themselves because it is necessary. Most Black Lion are trying to purify their souls and their name. My vision of the Black Lion is a vision of individuals who believe it is better that they bear the weight of dishonor, than their Clanmates. And yes, bearing that burden can bring dishonor to their families and Clan in general, but it is better to bring that dishonor through a low-ranked samurai than through someone with higher standing in the Lion Clan. If you must simplify it, it is a philosophy of realism as opposed to a philosophy of the ideal.

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I am proud to be a Black Lion. One of many...

What am I playing now? [still in development]

viva la black lion revolution.

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lion clan samurai.mantis ally.black lion.naval.archer .sheildmen.

It truly pains me to think the a lion would have to for-go his most valued treasure....I cannot accept that there isnt an honorable path in every situation.....you always have to look harder and rely on your brothers and sisters for support and guidance.

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"We will prevail"
-Our Champion

Well...

Legacy Lion honour: what's the best deck for it? Do you play Kitsu Tombs/The Dark Moto Sensei so that Kitsu Toju is boxable? Do you play Seppun Sensei so that you can ignore Deeds, Not Words - and your own Rise From the Ashes if it's allowed - since Toju is at least still playable first turn?

I guess you can try playing Halls of Memory, since you'll go first and are half a turn closer to 40 honour, but can you really afford to give up the possibility of getting Toju turn 1?

Alex

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L5R Rules Team

OK, the whole idea of the Black Lion came to me as a storyline thing. Honestly, I would love if the Lion were capable of taking the honorable path, every single time. The truth is, we can't. The Lion is a Clan of war, and in war you don't necissarily have time to consider what would be the most honorable way to do something every time such a decision comes up; sometimes, the necessity of the battlefield, and the greater good of defeating a dark enemy, take precedence over an individual's personal Honor. If the decision is to either think for a few minutes about how to honorably oppose an Oni horde, for example, or to do something dishonorable to prevent the horde from proceeding over your broken corpse to ravage a small village, would you really want to take the high road? Believe me, I'm not condoning the dishonorable act, at all, I'm just accepting it as a distasteful necessity of the moment. And, if a Lion is faced with such a disgusting decision, I would very much prefer that the Lion in question took the stance of the Black Lion; that they would do such an act if necessary, but not allow that act to stain the Clan. They would become a Deathseeker to cleanse their own Honor, and their Clan's Honor. To me, it seems like a simple and elegant solution to making a horrible choice for the betterment of the Empire and the Lion.

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I am proud to be a Black Lion. One of many...

What am I playing now? [still in development]

Seems like a slippery slope to me. If we sacrificing your own honour becomes the done thing, at what point do we become worse than the spider trying to take over the empire.

Basically what is the point of keeping the throne out of evil hands if we have to do evil things to keep it.

Oh, I don't think that this completely absolves the Lion from blame in the "evil" acts of the Black Lion. Far from it. In my view, the Black Lion is a creation of the Lion who can't find the most honorable way. What they're doing is wrong, and the act of self-sacrifice doesn't absolve them completely of the shame, at least in my view. But, it's a way that the Black Lion justify what they do. I'm not making a "this is the right way to do things" argument. I know that my arguments have kind of looked like I was saying that this was the right way to do things, but that's largely because I was trying to speak from the perspective of a Black Lion. At best, the Lion are going the "right" thing through this when it contradicts the hard and fast rules of Honor in the Emerald Empire. More realistically, this is the way that Lion who have fallen from the path of true Honor justify their actions to themselves, though.

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I am proud to be a Black Lion. One of many...

What am I playing now? [still in development]